Tuesday, July 28, 2009

Harold Camping Debates Dr. James White (Part One)

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MP3 Available Here

DR. JAMES R. WHITE, author of "Dangerous Airwaves: Harold Camping Refuted & Christ's Church Defended", and HAROLD CAMPING, founder & president of FAMILY RADIO, will DEBATE: "HAS THE CHURCH AGE ENDED?"

From Dr James White:

We just confirmed that Tuesday and Wednesday, July 28th and 29th, I will be debating Harold Camping on the Iron Sharpens Iron radio program on the topic of Camping's teaching that the church has ceased to exist. As some of you may know, Harold Camping has been teaching for years now that the church age has ended; that no one can get saved in the church any longer; that true believers should flee the churches, etc. I wrote my book Dangerous Airwaves in response to Camping's teachings on this topic. Well, Chris Arnzen has once again found a way to make a debate happen that nobody thought could ever happen. So, for two days next week we will debate this topic. I will defend the biblical position that Christ's church remains His bride and that Christians are to be faithful in their service to Christ through her, and that Harold Camping's wild-eyed gymnastics with the text, his use of allegory and numerology, etc., is a gross abuse of inspired Scripture. Make no mistake about it: this will end up being a debate over how you handle the Bible and allow God to speak. As I said in response to Camping years ago in Dangerous Airwaves:

The grammatical-historical method of interpretation is a means of guaranteeing that we are hearing what the text says, not what we wantthe text to say. This is a vitally important point, especially when it comes to the Scriptures. When reading secular texts we are not nearly as tempted to insert a foreign meaning into the words of the author, since it is rare that such a text would be given sufficient importance to warrant the effort. We naturallyapply sound rules of interpretation to such documents since we are not at all threatened by theresults. But when it comes to the text of the Bible, much more is at stake. But if we are consistent in our beliefs, and truly want to hear what the Scriptures are saying and not what we want them to say or feel they should say, we need to have a means of reading the text that does not allow us to slipour own thoughts into the text under the guise of interpretation. The Bible needs to say the same thing in each language, in each culture, in each context, or it cannot be the means of communicating the truth to us that Christians believe it to be. The grammatical-historical method allows us to be both honest and consistent with the text of the Bible.

The fundamental reason we must reject allegorical interpretation of the biblical text is really quite simple: it is unverifiable. That is, there is no possible way to determine that the results of using allegorical methodology have anything whatsoever to do with the actual meaning of the text. One man's allegorical understanding can have no compelling force upon the thinking of another, for that person may well seesomething completely different in the text. Since the means provided by human language to communicate meaning are by-passed in the allegorical method, there are no "safety nets" to keep one from wandering off into the most fanciful of "interpretations" of the text. Hence, the person who says "the allegorical meaning of this text is such and so" cannot claim the actual authority of the text for his interpretation, for the actual source of the interpretation is not the text itself but the mind of the interpreter. This is why we say there can be no compelling force to one's allegorical interpretation, for it is merely personal, and if anyone else accepts it, it is because they choose to trust the allegorical interpreter rather than the text itself. Allegorical interpretations can have no more authority than the one proclaiming them.

When applied to the biblical text this methodology is devastating. The authority of the text is destroyed. No allegorical interpreter can honestly say, "The Word of God says," for in reality, the Word of God has been replaced with the more or less fancifulthoughts of the interpreter himself. The Christian doctrine of inspiration sets the Christian Scriptures apart from all other claimed divine revelations in that Christians believe the Scriptures are God-breathed. This means the written word communicates to us infallibly the very speaking of God in a miraculously personal manner (Matthew 22:31). The authority of the Word is not based upon the interpreter but upon the inspired text itself. The message of the written Word is the same through the course oftime. Without this affirmation, the Word becomes a purely subjective document, incapable of communicating divine truth with certainty.

This point cannot be over-emphasized. Allegorical interpretation destroys biblical authority. It replaces the divine message with the imaginations of the interpreter, and as such opens the door wide for every kind of abuse of the text. False teachers, seeking to draw away disciples after themselves (Acts 20:30), utilize such means to release themselves from the unchanging standards of Gods Word and insert, under the guise of thus sayeth the Lord, their own pet doctrines and teachings. The Christian who is untaught and unstable, a novice in the Word, can easily be taken in by such a teacher who exudes confidence and often hides the false teachings behind a veneer of self-professed orthodoxy. So when we defend proper exegetical methodology, we are not merely arguing about tangential issues, we are, in reality, defending the very authority of the Word, and its ability to speak with clarity and force to each generation and in every place.

26 comments:

Peter said...

Dr. White,
In listening to the rebroadcast its not before long before you get very animated, visibly upset and accusatory of Mr. Camping. Assuming all things are the same (and they are clearly not) you appear to be the one taken off your game.

You continue to make accusation after accusation, but the subtle "third rail" of discussion which you continue to return to is the End date 5/21/2011. You cannot disprove anything that Camping is saying. That's not the point. As christians, we are to read, pray and humbly go before the Lord so that we may receive understanding. If or when that understanding arrives, we are to be humble about.

Time and time again, you repeatedly cough so as to draw attention of Mr. Camping's teachings.
Everything you allege is your opinion. Camping has been open to correction and he is constantly humbled.

I have been listening to Mr. Camping for some time and I have not found a more faithful bible teacher (he's not always right) than Mr. Camping. This man has been on air since the early 1960's and has been accused of being satan, a false prophet, and yet with all of this, he continues to go humbly before the word and continues to broadcast the show.

That is truly testament to the humble messenger he is.
I want to thank you for your antics in allowing me to see it over and over again.
As always, I will continue to search, but I believe that this man is much closer to truth than you are.
I wish you well in your future.
-peter canale

Kurt said...

Greetings Peter,
Could it be possible that hundreds of thousands of noteworthy Biblical Scholars, Theologians, and Pastors worldwide are totally in error and Mr. Camping is correct? Is it possible that millions of Churches really ought to shut there doors as they are truly under the 'dominion of Satan' as Mr. Camping claims? This is inconceivable.

Contrary to your thoughts of Harold Camping's humility, it involves an incredible amount of pride to take a confident stand against the aforementioned.
It also takes much pride to attach his 'lone wolf' beliefs to the Gospel as he ties them into the 'Does God love you' tracts and distributes them throughout the world. He is ultimately, knowingly or unknowingly attempting to drag the cross of Christ right through the mud as his 'deceptions' prove themselves out in the light of Truth.

I cannot imagine, that if given the opportunity in this debate Dr. White had, that I would have been able to contain my passion in defense of the Truth. Harold Camping's most grievous errors are deceiving multitudes and distorting the most precious Word of Our Lord.

We need to stand UP for God's Word! And that doesn't always involve what others may deem as proper and 'making nice'. The repercussions from a 5/21/2011 coming to pass without incident attempts a black eye on the Christian Faith and quite frankly Peter I can't imagine Mr. Camping being correct on this.

I am saddened by the current state of affairs at Family Radio. I listen with discernment to it most frequently and am edified and encouraged by its content and especially enjoy the Hymns. I am hard pressed as to whether I ought to pray for Harold Camping or consider him to be accursed of God.

Oh that we would all examine ourselves more fully in the Light of God's Holy Word. May we be ever mindful of our brief sojourn here and the real purpose of our existence. May God lead us all into a deeper understanding of His Blessed Truth.

Sean said...

Could it be possible that hundreds of thousands of noteworthy Biblical Scholars, Theologians, and Pastors worldwide are totally in error and Mr. Camping is correct? Is it possible that millions of Churches really ought to shut there doors as they are truly under the 'dominion of Satan' as Mr. Camping claims? This is inconceivable.

I suppose it was also inconceivable back when the synagogues were no longer used by God anymore, but we know that the Bible indicates that God did stop using the synagogues.

When Noah was alive, it must have also been inconceivable that a worldwide flood would come and kill everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. Just 8 people were saved in the ark. Was the Gospel a failure back then? No, God is in charge and has mercy on who He will have mercy.

Once we see God's character shining through in the Bible, and how He did things in the past, hard truths like the end of the church age, and many entering the wide gate that leads to destruction, become more conceivable, i believe.

We don't like to hear that only 8 people were saved in the ark, especially if we're unsure of our salvation, but that's a fact in the Bible. It's been estimated that there was over 1 million people alive on earth before the flood. All perished except for Noah and his family.

May God have mercy according to His perfect, sovereign will.

Peter said...

Dear Kurt,
I will admit that there is enormous strength in numbers. Those hundreds of thousands of scholars you refer to could have possibly lived at a time when the Bible was not being opened as it is today.
Dr. White had a theme on the show, that the Bible is plain as day. Could it be possible that God concealed truths until it was his good will to reveal them? How else could many of the Jews walk with Jesus and view his miracles and not believe he was the Son of God until the Holy Spirit came upon them.
The Bible was written in such a way that only God can give true understanding. Sure, there are parts that are to be taken at face value--like the 6 day creation and Jonah being swallowed by the whale, but other books are clearly written in parabolic language.
My discussions with may other people regarding this seem to revolve around this one question: "Was the Bible written by God?"
If you believe it was, and that God in his omniscience concealed truth until the present-day, than you are in surprising agreement with Camping.
If you don't, then you cast aside many of the proofs of this in Mat 13:14, Acts 28:26, Dan 12:9, and many other proofs.
If you don't believe that the Bible was God-Breathed (perhaps like Dr. White), then you are in agreement with many churches who view the Bible as nothing more than a literary piece.
Would you say that it took an enormous amount of pride for Jonah to preach to the Ninevites? Or for Noah to preach to the people of his day? No. It takes enormous humility and faith to preach a message which so many people just don't agree with.

-peterc

Dennis said...

We now have what is called a conundrum,regarding"lambsfury"
or Tom or Thomas Golda of N.J
Now it would seem on the surface
that Thomas who posts here as
"LAMBSFURY " is well taught of the BIBLE and one would say or could say is a very good writer just by the words he uses and one would /could think that he is "NOT OF THIS WORLD "BUT OF THE WORLD TO COME.........

BUT AND THERE IS ALWAYS A"BUT " THEN WHEN ONE VISITS HIS
"FACE BOOK SITE "

http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Golda/1617476400

THEN ONE GETS A ENTIRELY DIFFERENT TAKE ON THOMAS...OR TOM ...OR LAMBSFURY....
ONE NOW WOULD/COULD SAY THAT FROM FIRST BLUSH"THOMAS IS IN FACT A MAN OF THIS WORLD BASED ON HIS FACE BOOK SITE ...SO FAR..more to come

Now one must ask this question is it possible that there is a layered "cover" for someone who "really " dislikes Harold Camping to the degree that he wishes to use language and comments that are so vitriolic in his attempt to
dis-lodge the FAMILY RADIO PRESIDENT....THAT HE HIDES AND WRITES IN THE SHADOWS THEN HAS SOMEONE LIKE "LAMBSFURY" POST IN
TOM'S NAME ??????????

OF COURSE IT HAPPENS EVERY DAY IN THE BUSINESS AND POLITICAL WORLD.
SO A PASTOR ,A PERSON WITH A DEGREE
WOULD CHOOSE TO BE VERY VERY CAREFUL WITH HOW IT WRITES AND DISTRIBUTES THE MATERIAL...IT WOULD BE A 'LAYERED COVER".....
NOW UNLESS TOM IS A JEKYLL & HYDE

IT NOW BECOMES IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE ANYTHING HE WRITES FROM THE VIEW OF A "CHRISTIAN" WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE "REAL WORLD HE LIVES IN"..AM I JUDGING ?? NO HE IS ADVERTISING..LOOK FOR YOURSELF THEN YOU DECIDE!
http://www.facebook.com/people/Thomas-Golda/1617476400

MORE TO COME....SOON
Dennis O'DAY

kmalexchan said...

Those who still are ignorant and arrogant. Please read Camping's book and compare scriptures. I have did a 5 year study and humbly confirm that he is correct and me as a Lutheran are off the scripture. Brother this is not a time to debate by mouth who is right and wrong but it is a time look at the Bible to check who is wrong. I am not favoring with Camping or know him, but being faith to the word and study for 5 years confirms that Camping is on the right track.
Rev 2/29 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Joh 10:27 - "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

june said...

Mr. White says: (emphasis mine)

“The Bible needs to say THE SAME THING in each language, in each culture, in each context, or it cannot be the means of communicating the truth to us that Christians believe it to be.

The message of the written Word IS THE SAME through the course of time. Without this affirmation, the Word becomes a purely subjective document, incapable of communicating divine truth with certainty.”

And yet the Bible Mr. White uses, endorses, and promotes . . the New American Standard Bible (NASB) contradicts what he has avowed above. Note the disparity and glaring omissions of words and entires verses of God's precious Word in the citations below between the NASB and the KJV. It becomes painfully clear to even the “unlearned”very quickly, that his bible, the NASB, does not say the “same thing” as my bible, the King James Bible by the comparative sampling of verses that follow.

SOURCE:
A Comparison of the New American Standard Version (NASV)with the Authorised King James Bible (KJB) / Edited by David Otis Fuller
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/NASV/nasv_vs_kjb.htm

Isaiah 53:10 NASV: "... If He would render Himself as a guilt offering." KJV: "... When thou Shalt make his soul an offering for sin..." (This, in our humble opinion, is a very serious perversion.)

Hosea 11:12 NASV: "... Judah is also unruly against God, Even against the Holy one who is faithful." KJV: "... but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.’ (What is this but perversion!)

Mark 11:26 NASV: Omitted entirely but placed in the margin in italics explaining that "later manuscripts add verse 26." (The later manuscripts in many cases are better by far than the earlier ones.) KJV: "But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses."

Luke 4:8 NASV: Omits entirely, "Get thee behind me, Satan."

Romans 1:16 NASV: "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God..." KJV: "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:" (The translators seem to dislike the word "Christ" very much!)

1 Corinthians 5:4 NASV: "In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus." (In both cases the name "Christ" is omitted with no reason given. Why do the translators of the NASV dislike the name "Christ" so much?)

2 Corinthians 11:31 NASV: "The God and Father of the Lord Jesus..." KJV: "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." (We ask in all sincerity, "Are the translators anxious to get rid of the name `Christ’ altogether?")

Galatians 6:17b NASV: "... for I bear on my body the brand-marks of Jesus." KJV: "... for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus." (It seems as if they don’t like the name "Lord" either.)

Ephesians 3:14 NASV: "For this reason, I bow my knees before the Father." KJV: "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. " (We ask in all sincerity, "Would the translators wish to get rid of the name entirely?")

1 Peter 3:15 NASV: "but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts..." KJV: "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts." (Is this another attempt to do away with the Deity of our Lord as in 1 Timothy 3:16?)

1 John 1:7b NASV: "... and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." KJV: "... and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (Let’s not stop the translators of getting rid of the name "Christ," they’re on a roll!)”

More here: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible/NASV/nasv_vs_kjb.htm

Instead of being a Christian apologist in the truest sense of the word, that is, being set for the “defence of the gospel” (Phil. 1:17), Mr. White and his peers have applied their higher learning to call into question and raise doubts as to the veracity, the inerrancy, the truth of God's Word.

James White was a Critical Consultant to the Updated NASB. http://www.lockman.org/nasb/nasbprin.php

june said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
june said...

I would now add a postscript to my most recent comment above

Two distinguished bible scholars refutation of the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE

The solemn words of the late Dr. Frank Logsdon, Committee Member New American Standard Version

"I must under God denounce every attachment to the New American Standard Version. I'm afraid I'm in trouble with the Lord...We laid the groundwork; I wrote the format; I helped interview some of the translators; I sat with the translator; I wrote the preface. When you see the preface to the New American Standard, those are my words...it's wrong, it's terribly wrong; it's frightfully wrong...I'm in trouble;...I can no longer ignore these criticisms I am hearing and I can't refute them. The deletions are absolutely frightening...there are so many. The finest leaders that we have today haven't gone into it [new versions of Hort and Wescott's corrupted Greek text] just as I hadn't gone into it...that's how easily one can be deceived...Are we so naive that we do not suspect SATANIC DECEPTION(caps mine) in all of this?"

--Dr. Frank Logsdon, Committee Member
New American Standard Version
Source: http://jesus-is-lord.com/nasv.htm

***********
THE NASV EXPOSED
The NASV is another Gnostic Book
by Dr. Ken Matto

Excerpt:

“I used the NASV for five years before God opened my eyes to the MASSIVE CORRUPTION within its pages.”

“I will share fifty verses with you so you may be your own judge with the evidence right in front of you.”

“I am glad God showed me where I was wrong back in 1986 when I used the New American Standard and then came the comparison and then the garbage can for the NASV."

NOTE: (The reader can view the comparison between the NASV and the KJV here: http://www.scionofzion.com/nasvx.htm

CORRUPT BIBLE PERVERSIONS ARE THE REAL ENEMY OF CHRIST'S CHURCH!

SATAN is the author of confusion . . babel!

john camping said...

#1 Its funny and odd I'm writing in this comment block today... I love the my Lord Jesus Christ and live daily in his mercy and forgiveness. I recently was miss directed in my life and thought that going to church was my salvation and that I was being good christian because I was going to church every Sunday, going there with my wife, trying to do the best I can with my life and making it by and started making more and more money thinking every things is going okay... I didn't realize how spiritually dead I was and that the system presented today is based on words and not of true sincere meaning of the words... I being a christian still found myself lieing a lil lie because it wasnt to hurt someone. Or not quite doing all that is a child of God should be doing. Relying on my own works to see if i was becoming a better christian or not... this went on for many years... I began having problems with pornography, thoughts of sex... not all the time i thought so i can still stop doing what i was doing...i even thought listening to bible study everyday was helping me and it was... but the true intent and my true faith was not completely devoted to the Lord... I still found my self yelling, getting upset those things Christians say well we're not perfect... We Christians try to justify our works for the lack of time being a Christian its like we are trying to self remedy ourselves with christ, religion and ceremony... I ended up coming to a dark state in my life... my sin I had was still with me... I still talked to other girls thinking it was okay and then one day it got out of hand... my Christian life became boastful, loud, arrogant basically everything that someone who says they are a Christian was not suppose to be but still called themselves a Christian... (a hypocrite) yes... im calling myself a hypocrite because that was what i was.. proclaiming the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and not actually living it completely and fully onto salvation of our Lord Jesus Christ. .. I ended up kissing 2 other girls my life was going down.. my life was in darkness I could not understand.. my sin over came me... it was my own desires of the flesh that ruled my life... I can testify today... May the Lord be my witness... The Lord God Almighty gave mercy on my soul, my life, and my everything... He pulled me out of a fire i was tangled up with in my mind...The Lord was merciful in my life to give me a path to repent.. from all I did...
I ask the Lord God for forgiveness so i can come back to him...
I ran out on God almost professing my going away from...

john camping said...

#2 I was running...
running far...
It was my lack of faith, lack of trust in the Lord God Almighty...
I entrusted in his words and teachings I've even told my wife all that I've done in my life.. All truths must come to light.. I love her we can't hide things..
My friend If you are listening today..
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock; if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." "He that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my father in his throne.""He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."My friend... The Lord Jesus Christ is waiting for you... his personal invitation to get to know him and be with him before its too late before your life is taken away from you...
Test your heart.... ask yourself are you a true believer ... are you really... take a look at an offense would u be offended? take a look at if someone hits u.. someone blocks u on the road.. someone say falsely of you.. does your anger rise? does your heart speak evil within itself? do you still fell evil partly in you... don't fool yourself and be pious say im perfect.. my friend Jesus is the Perfecter of our Faith... He is our Savior... HE IS OUR SAVIOR AND SALVATION... No other man... no organization no ritual.. even Jude says in the days gird yourselves up in the most holy faith... this is talking to you believers out there... Its a warning to us.. who say we are his but we lie... if you find yourself even stretching the truth even a lil... my friend you are a lier... you are a lier i don't care what you say you are... don't lie to yourself and condemn yourself... trust in him... give him all your inequities... repent and go to the Lord... he'll heal you from inwards to out.. not by our hands... Does your heart minute by minute day by day think praises on the Lord my friend... we need him...

john camping said...

#3 this life is just a vapor in time... Let us be faithful.. if you lack ask for faith... if you need or weak in areas pray in your most holy faith and ask the Lord God Almighty who is rich in mercies and in giving.. He is a God of giving... Could you give everything up right now?.... Could you really ask yourself... this... Don't Love that money we make its a false assurance in the faith... its a deceitful lie... One thing Harold has said correctly... the church is invisible and is the body of Christ.. My friend Be of Christ alone and find your life with him... I beg of your and plead with you... I'm in tears writing this to anyone that is listening even to Harold Camping.. and even to Dr. White... Don't let your vain glory in theology and knowledge pump your vains.. they are no good go Christ he wants you my friend all of you.. you heart, body, soul.. he wants everything of you and he wants to tell you all things of him.. his mercy and Love he'll show and give... I don't know what to say to the people today.. I don't care if your in church or on the street.. If you know Christ is your savior.. Make sure he saves you... Don't save yourself or ur own works... believe me... Believe the Lord Jesus Christ alone... soley alone... knowledge is not going to get you no where... It is in the Lord Jesus Christ alone.. does he not say that he is the rock? He he not the corner stone.. is he not the builder? Be in spirit as our Lord God is in spirit.. We worship in spirit we praise in spirit we walk in spirit my friend... Don't walk s the world walks today... They'll lead you astray every time.. Love Christ... Let him save you today.. Do you know him?
With so many things and theology and ideas being blurted out today.. even heresies.. the harlot...
the beast..
my friend we of the body of Christ is looking for Jesus Christ... we are not looking at anything else... If we look back like they looked back on Sodom we'll become like a pillar of salt too... let us trust the Lord Jesus Christ with all your heart and soul.. Love him more than any.. Make sure you be taught how to love... like the Lord.. Many of us view what we think love is.. Why don't we ask the Lord to teach us in our Hearts how to love him and how to love one another.. so that what works in you is everlasting and not just superficial and will faulter in times of trials and tribulations.. Walk not according to the flesh... walk in the spirit.. for you know the works of the flesh.. we are to walk in the spirit without Lord Jesus Christ..
This is a warning.. A warning that i fell victim too.. What do you trust your life with today?... friends? money? sports? girls? job? anything that works with the hands? anything.. walk in the Spirit.. Please brethren.. Please Harold.. Just keep our eye on Jesus alone.. Its a tragedy what we are living in today... But we have Christ... Oh Save us from this wretched body of ours my Lord.. Amen

James Swan said...

John,

I pray you find a church body that will continue to help you in your sanctification.

We here at Iron Sharpens Iron know of good churches all over the country. If we can help you, let us know.

justme68 said...

Mr Camping is KILLING MY MOM!!!!!
My Mom has listened to this man for years she is glued to her radio everyday and night. Listening to him tell her she is one of the chosen who get to go to heaven.Why out of all the millions people who like myself that believe in the Lord, Why was he chosen to be the only one that God showed when the world will end? He claims that it will start in May 2011 and end in October 2001. Wow he must be special. My Mom just found out she has Cancer, She told her Dr that the end of the world is coming soon so she is going to do nothing about it. Thanks Mr Camping for killing my Mom. By the time May 21, 2001 comes there might not be time to save her from the Cancer. Is he going to say he is sorry for being wrong again. Will he come to My Mom's death bed and ask for forgiveness? I doubt it. But I can assure you that he will no longer own a radio station when I get through with him. I have E-Mailed him and of course he has not answered me. I have told him to remember my name because he will be hearing from me and my Attorney on May 22, 2001. I cannot understand why people listen to him. All they teach is there are only a select few of us that will make it to heaven. God loves us all Mr Camping and all that believe will not parish, You might for teaching people to stay out of Church. Oh and that is another thing he says stay away from church, But if you see his videos The camera pans once and a while you can clearly see people sitting down and listening, Hello that is a Church people! When people gather to worship that is a Church. Just because I listen to music, Watch T.V, Spend the days with my Friends and Family does not mean I am not saved and I should parish. But that is what he teaches and he is WRONG. Wake up listeners Mr Camping is Satan, He takes from the bible that is true but he makes it his own and in the Bible it says clearly to be aware of these men. He is not Humble as soon as someone with a brain tells him the truth he replies with "Thank You for Calling and Sharing, Next caller please" One Man called in and was concerned about his Baby Girl that dies in a accident. He asked if she was in Heaven. Mr Camping replied "I don't know if her name was in the book of life or not, I could not tell you". Anyone who thinks God would not accept a Baby into Heaven is wrong. I wonder all the time what he is going to say for himself on Judgment Day, After God asks him why did you lead so many astray.

Peter said...

Dear JustMe68,
Get a grip of yourself. Mr. Camping did not tell your Mom she is saved unless you have a neighbor named Mr. Camping. Mr. Camping probably told her that we don't know the heart of man and that when we become saved we will know we become saved.
If your mom is suffering from cancer she should get help. Camping has advocated the use of modern advances in medicines. In fact, earlier this year when Camping himself needed to repair a leaky valve in his heart spoke about how he needs to get this procedure done.
Mental illness can never be an excuse for not getting medical attention. Whether you or your Mom suffer from this, you should seek medical attention immediately.
As far as the end, it happens to be the most contentious thing he's ever taught. I've read Adam When, Time has an End, End of Church Age and After and all his books. You are entitled to believe what you want.
Judging by the tone in your email you have a problem. Maybe you should be praying to God for mercy before attacking faithful servants of God.

But suit yourself.
-pc

john camping said...

Uncle Harold.. How are you doing.. I hope things are fine with your family and friends...

We are responsible to the Lord Jesus Christ.. Let us not judge one another but let us grow in faith unto salvation to the Lord Christ Jesus..

Let us continually pray for one another because we all need the Lords Help in these tough times.. Rely never on man but to God alone.. Let no man stand between you and God.. There is your communication should be.. Let us rejoice for our forgiveness of sins.. Let us rejoice for our righteous God... Let us rejoice for just God.. Let us rejoice for our Faithful God.. Let us live in the Grace of our Lord Christ Jesus.. Amen

And Pray for me to have faith always.. I love you all and may the Grace of our Lord Christ Jesus be upon you all

Panda said...

Have you Camping followers forgotten his 1994 false prophesy already? Even then, he was asking for donations to support Family Radio right up until the "end". Why would he continue to ask for donations if the world was going to end in a few weeks or days? I'm sure he's doing the same thing now.
Keep in mind that the Bible damns false prophets to Hell unless they truly repent.Camping still hasn't repented for 1994 and, as such, is headed to Hell. The same goes for his followers. What am I saying that's not Biblical?

Based on the below verses, I think that anyone who predicts the day of Jesus return is calling Him a liar.

Matthew 24:36 TNIV
The Day and Hour Unknown

36 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, [e] but only the Father.
(Words of Jesus)


Mark 13:32 TNIV
The Day and Hour Unknown
32 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Words of Jesus)

Footnote to Mark 13:32:

No one knows. A map of the future would be a hindrance, not a help, to faith. Certain signs have been given, but not for the purpose of making detailed, sequential predictions. that day. An OT expression for the day of the Lord’s appearance (Am 8:3, 9, 13; 9:11; Mic 4:6; 5:10; 7:11), referring to the coming of the Son of Man(v.26). angels. See note on Ge 16:7, nor the Son. While on earth, even Jesus lived by faith, and obedience was the hallmark of his ministry.

The underlining in the above footnote is mine. This is exactly what Camping is doing. And for the second time now.

Have you no fear of eternal damnation?

Panda said...

I don't listen to Camping since before 1994. I thought he was shredding the Bible before his 1994 fiasco and then I was convinced that he's a loose cannon (no arguing that), a heretic, an unrepentant false prophet,and a cash bloodsucker of his followers.

I'm curious if he's still asking for donations to support Family Radio while knowing the world is going to end in 2011. He kept soliciting right up to the end in 1994! How come?

Camping has become a very rich man from donations to Family Radio. This is a well-known fact. He can easily support Family Radio himself until 2011 when his riches won't matter anymore. The question, for all you Camping followers, is Camping still soliciting donations for Family Radio as he did in 1994 and why?

I'd appreciate hearing from you.

Panda said...

I don't listen to Camping since before 1994. I thought he was shredding the Bible before his 1994 fiasco and then I was convinced that he's a loose cannon (no arguing that), a heretic, an unrepentant false prophet,and a cash bloodsucker of his followers.

I'm curious if he's still asking for donations to support Family Radio while knowing the world is going to end in 2011. He kept soliciting right up to the end in 1994! How come?

Camping has become a very rich man from donations to Family Radio. This is a well-known fact. He can easily support Family Radio himself until 2011 when his riches won't matter anymore. The question, for all you Camping followers, is Camping still soliciting donations for Family Radio as he did in 1994 and why?

I'd appreciate hearing from you.

roy engstrom
royengstrom@cox.net

Panda said...

I don't listen to Camping since before 1994. I thought he was shredding the Bible before his 1994 fiasco and then I was convinced that he's a loose cannon (no arguing that), a heretic, an unrepentant false prophet,and a cash bloodsucker of his followers.

I'm curious if he's still asking for donations to support Family Radio while knowing the world is going to end in 2011. He kept soliciting right up to the end in 1994! How come?

Camping has become a very rich man from donations to Family Radio. This is a well-known fact. He can easily support Family Radio himself until 2011 when his riches won't matter anymore. The question, for all you Camping followers, is Camping still soliciting donations for Family Radio as he did in 1994 and why?

I'd appreciate hearing from you.

samurai-saint said...

regarding the NASB Vs the King James version. Or any other version.

the truth is the King James version is wrong in its translation just as much as the modern translations are wrong. You don’t compare translations together. you compare them to the SOURCE TEXTS. Any Student of the bible can get a free bible program (esword) and load it up with translations even a couple that pre date the KJV. You can also get the Hebrew and Greek text and more than one Hebrew and Greek dictionary.
Then you can COMPARE the texts with the Hebrew and Greek and you can easily see where there are places you would disagree and scratch your head with every single one of them. If you want the truth the KJV is one of the MOST INNACURATE TRANSLATIONS. Not because of new vs old source texts but simply because you can see they didn’t fully understand what they were reading when they translated it.
None of these errors change the overall meaning of the entire bible but there are some glaring errors that mess up specific verses and passages.
The disciple of the Lord Jesus and the student of scripture has no excuse not to be studied and versed in these things. I am sorry June but you completely fail in this regard. GOD did not write the KJV and you should not assume that its text is the gold standard. Be diligent and study and use the tools God has graciously provided for all of us during these last days.

dave said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dave said...

Harold Camping is a false prophet. He has already proven that with his previous failed prophecy, "1994?". He has made excuses to patch over his errors, but nonetheless, he's a fake. Dr. White, in the same vain, is clearly not the best person to debate Mr. Camping. There are clearly other Pastors and Theologians who could more cogently present the Gospel message. As a result, this is an all-around disappointment to listen to.

bondservant4jesuschrist said...

You know what they call things a man leads a group of people who claims to have the only truth and no other Church, etc. They call those cults.

Mr. Camping isn't the first to name dates and be wrong. There are many others that came and went. I don't know, but in the bible it says no one knows the day or hour of Christ's return. I think you need to go back to the basics of sound doctrine.

Eric said...

To Justme68

Just a little word of encouragement to your mom. Try to get her to get treatment and dont allow her to be swayed by a false prophet. Because if she doesnt and nothing happens on his date(s)(nothing will happen), then you both will suffer dearly (both physically and mentally).

Eric said...

Mr Camping is a fool to think he knows everything. Yet he made mistakes every single time he made a prediction. He'll always say *Oops it mustve been a mathematical error, or something like it* He will learn soon enough the errors of his ways. The truth will bite him on his hind end sure enough, and I will sit back and relax while he gets bit.

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