Tuesday, March 10, 2009

DEE DEE WARREN: HYPER-PRETERISM: The Resurrection of an Ancient Heresy



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MP3 Available Here

DEE DEE WARREN, co-owner of TheologyWeb.com , contributor to The Preterist Blog and operator of The Preterist Site , will address the theme: "HYPER-PRETERISM: The Resurrection of an Ancient Heresy".

Hyper-Preterism, among other things, denies a future, visible, bodily return of Jesus Christ, and a future resurrection of the dead. Our guest Dee Dee Warren was a hyper-preterist for a brief time in 1998/1999 which nearly wrecked her faith and devastated her emotionally. After she came out of that through the assistance of Pastor Chori Seraiah, she became actively involved in refuting this heresy and providing resources for people who are being lured off the cliff. At the time Dee Dee started this work, she was the only person doing this kind of work regularly and consistently. Her podast is available here:
http://www.preteristpodcast.com/.

For a quick summary of Dee Dee's background, her introductory podcast is quite short:
Episode One: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Rapture

Dee Dee's "flagship article" can be found at:
http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrengrave.html

A listing of my work can be found at:
http://www.preteristsite.com/deedeewarren.hmtl

Dee Dee's commentary on Matthew 24 can be found at:
http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html

7 comments:

Robin said...

"Hyper-Preterism, among other things, denies a future, visible, bodily return of Jesus Christ, and a future resurrection of the dead."

I have seen this stated so often that some probably think that it must be a true statement. But my contention here is where exactly does it state in the gospel that this 'future visibile bodily return' is our hope in Christ? I know the creeds state this, but exactly where do they get it from scripture? Just because one is not willing to make this statement dogmatically does not equate to denying Jesus nor the hope we have been given in His gospel.

As for a future resurrection of the dead, I do see one still awaits the 'rest of the dead' (Rev 20). But should I put my hope in that one when it is clear the FIRST resurrection is the one of blessing? So while the so-called hyperpreterist sees the ongoing fulfillment of that promise as having already come to those in the first century and expects his change to come immediately upon death, the opposition is adamant that this is not our hope at all - or 'yet'?

Tell me, what more would you have Christ do for our redemption that He has not already accomplished in the cross, resurrection and ascension back to the glory He has with the Father before the world began? Must He reincarnate back to this world in order to give salvation to those who have placed their faith in Him - when He has clearly said the world will see Him no more? Perhaps those who can only walk by sight think this is their hope, but it is not in line with what Jesus said in John 8:51, 11:26 or what Paul said in 1 Cor 15:44 and elsewhere.

Which is why it is important to stick with the gospel as stated, lest we go beyond into those areas where men have devised things to add because they do not believe the hope that we have.

Brian Simmons said...

Robin,

Are you saying that the resurrection of the "rest of the dead" in Rev. 20 is future?

Brian

Roderick_E said...

Good show Dee Dee & Chris. Though the hyperpreterists didn't call into the show, they are certainly all fired up over this interview. One of the major leaders even wrote an entire article about it (neglecting to source link to this website).

Though many people may have never heard of this belief, it is important that they become vaccinated against it as Dee Dee related how easy it is to fall into it. With 200 years of dispensationalism's date-setting "left-behindism", hyperpreterism may sound reasonable if that is the only view of "Christianity" a person has ever had.

As for Robin, Robin is a "loner" hyperpreterist, in that her views don't really represent the main of the movement. If she says she believes in a yet future resurrection, that belief puts her at odds with her own movement.

Further, Robin isn't so nice since on another forum she says this about Dee Dee's interview:

The intro to Dee Dee's podcast/ article there mentions that she made herself sick when in the hyperpreterist camp and that is her reason for now fighting against it tooth and nail. Yet her problems remain according to her own testimony. Could that be because she still has yet to move into the love of Christ? Because that is what I see grossly lacking in those who take upon themselves this heresy-hunter game of falsely accusing the brethren over man made dogmas rather than choosing the love for the glory and knowledge of the Lord. -- Robin

Really??? Did Dee Dee say that was her "reason" for combating hyperpreterism? Perhaps one of MANY reasons. Robin you seem to think that it is "unloving" to warn people against heresies yet verses like Eph 5:11 & Romans 16:17-18 show us it is loving to EXPOSE/NOTE those like the hyperpreterists who are causing division by teaching a contrary doctrine...contrary to the Bible & to 2000 years worth of Christian interpretation. Robin, hyperpreterists AREN'T "brethren" anymore than Mormons or JWS are "brethren".

The "man-made" dogmas you claim that we hold are actually the doctrines/traditions that Jesus gave to the apostles & the apostles gave to us 2 Thes 2:15 & that 2000 years of Christians have been following.

Hyperpreterism denies the exact 3 things that ALL of historic Christianity has UNITEDLY affirmed for 2000 years; (1) yet future to us return of Jesus, (2) yet future to us resurrection of the believers, (3) yet future to us judgment of the wicked & righteous. THAT is the reason hyperpreterists are NOT Christians.

Brian Simmons said...

Rod,

In case you didn't know, Robin is also known as "MoGrace2U." She can be found on the CARM forum.

And BTW, you should stop connecting Hyper-Preterism with Dispensationalism. Qualified theologians like Mal Couch and Randall Price who have already showed that Hyper-Preterism is a form of rationalistic skepticism. It is an outgrowth of German Higher Criticism. I've written an article which links this theology with rejection of the supernatural.

http://www.archive.org/details/TheInfidelityOfPreterism

This article is in the public domain and may be reprinted freely.

Peace & Health,

Brian

Dee Dee Warren said...

Brian that is good to know since Robin under that other name has played all nicey nice to me.

Roderick is right, there were many reasons, and that isn't even a major one. As far as my problems remaining, Robin you are low. Yes I still do suffer from chronic depression. Why? Why don't you ask a doctor rather than playing one on the Internet. My first clinical depression was at that time. Once you have experienced that once, it makes you very susceptible for the rest of your life to have another. I have never had anything like that since, except when your buddies where cyberstalking me and putting up webpages about me with my home address, family member names, employer names, who I bought my house from, my maiden name etc.

Who are the sick ones? Free clue: it isn't me.

Why don't you go on over to SGP and ask Samuel Frost why he is still unrepentant over defending an email that went out depicting me as the Whore of Bablyon? Or is that normal to you?

Evan said...

Chris
Thanks for you good shows.
About once a month I come here and download some of them and listen to them.

Dee Dee's was interesting/good enough that I went to her linked site and downloaded all her podcasts and have listened to most of them.

They are fun, interesting, informative ...
Even though they are done on a Mac :-)

Dee Dee Warren said...

Evan you shall see the light :)

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